The Lea Bridge over the Mosset was the primary crossing point over the burn throughout the medieval period and into the modern. This was on the direct route to the crossing of the Findhorn at Waterford.
That’s not to say that it didn’t turn east beyond that point.
Prior to the building of the bypass, Councillors Walk i.e. the traditional town boundaries ran along that line. I always wondered why that was the boundary as there was little or no geographical feature to define it, but if the Mosset Burn ran there…..
BTW your line on the 1832 map is definitely off - you have the burn flowing uphill! Back Street is now what is North St and quite a stiff climb up from the banks of the Mosset. It’s more likely to have followed the line followed by the railway today.
On Cassieford, I think the OS map is misleading. It labels the farm which is uphill and on the wrong side of the Kinloss road. However, when I was growing up in the area, Cassieford was applied to the small settlement on the other side of the Kinloss road on the downslope to where the burn would be in your conjecture. I have to say I think this and the Inchdemmie name are quite indicative - I grew up wondering where the ford in Cassieford actually was
Finally, on the RtB charter, could this be reflecting that the burgesses of Forres had already diverted the burn and Kinloss Abbey were looking to re-establish the original course? Quite often such intervention by authority only came after the locals had taken the law (and property boundaries) into their own hands.
Thanks Alastair as ever - yes I see what you mean about the 1832 map! I will make a new one. I agree on Cassieford as well, I always thought it was on the left-hand side of the Findhorn road going out of Forres. You could be right on the Robert charter, in which case it's good additional evidence for the Mosset once having flowed to Kinloss - thanks!
Had a bit of trouble signing in today (although it's been fine in the past) & it wouldn't let me post a comment WITHOUT signing in, but it seems to have worked now! I just wanted to say: this is all as fascinating as ever, and I think Inchdemmie is a great place name! (Not as good as Findhorn obv, but still fun.) I hope it turns out your river went where you hope it did - or, at least, that you find proof one way or the other!
Ahh, thanks Jocelyn - I think I might actually get proof of this one, which will be a relief as most of my posts end with "of course we'll never really know for sure," which probably isn't what people want to hear from a historian!
Ahh, thanks Jocelyn - I think I might actually get proof of this one, which will be a relief as most of my posts end with "of course we'll never really know for sure," which probably isn't what people want to hear from a historian!
"licite fodiendo possint trahere et habere per medium terre nostre usque ad domum suam de Kynlos aquam de Masseth quam habent ex dono predecessorum nostrorum"
The license is mentioned (in 1310) in Records of the monastery of Kinloss (available from archive.org) along with the Latin but in that it refers to digging a channel from the Mosset to the abbey rather than diverting it as such.
Brilliant, thanks Andy - POMS won't open for me at the moment, but I forgot I could have found the Latin in the Records of the Monastery of Kinloss. It says the monks could dig a channel from the king's land, but I thought the whole of the low-lying area to the north and north-east of Forres already belonged to the abbey. Clearly some more research required!
Hi Fiona
As thought provoking as ever.
Some thoughts on your conjectural hydrology…..
The Lea Bridge over the Mosset was the primary crossing point over the burn throughout the medieval period and into the modern. This was on the direct route to the crossing of the Findhorn at Waterford.
That’s not to say that it didn’t turn east beyond that point.
Prior to the building of the bypass, Councillors Walk i.e. the traditional town boundaries ran along that line. I always wondered why that was the boundary as there was little or no geographical feature to define it, but if the Mosset Burn ran there…..
BTW your line on the 1832 map is definitely off - you have the burn flowing uphill! Back Street is now what is North St and quite a stiff climb up from the banks of the Mosset. It’s more likely to have followed the line followed by the railway today.
On Cassieford, I think the OS map is misleading. It labels the farm which is uphill and on the wrong side of the Kinloss road. However, when I was growing up in the area, Cassieford was applied to the small settlement on the other side of the Kinloss road on the downslope to where the burn would be in your conjecture. I have to say I think this and the Inchdemmie name are quite indicative - I grew up wondering where the ford in Cassieford actually was
Finally, on the RtB charter, could this be reflecting that the burgesses of Forres had already diverted the burn and Kinloss Abbey were looking to re-establish the original course? Quite often such intervention by authority only came after the locals had taken the law (and property boundaries) into their own hands.
Keep up the good work
Thanks Alastair as ever - yes I see what you mean about the 1832 map! I will make a new one. I agree on Cassieford as well, I always thought it was on the left-hand side of the Findhorn road going out of Forres. You could be right on the Robert charter, in which case it's good additional evidence for the Mosset once having flowed to Kinloss - thanks!
Had a bit of trouble signing in today (although it's been fine in the past) & it wouldn't let me post a comment WITHOUT signing in, but it seems to have worked now! I just wanted to say: this is all as fascinating as ever, and I think Inchdemmie is a great place name! (Not as good as Findhorn obv, but still fun.) I hope it turns out your river went where you hope it did - or, at least, that you find proof one way or the other!
Ahh, thanks Jocelyn - I think I might actually get proof of this one, which will be a relief as most of my posts end with "of course we'll never really know for sure," which probably isn't what people want to hear from a historian!
Ahh, thanks Jocelyn - I think I might actually get proof of this one, which will be a relief as most of my posts end with "of course we'll never really know for sure," which probably isn't what people want to hear from a historian!
You can read some of the Latin here https://www.poms.ac.uk/record/factoid/70351/ (click on Possessions: Privileges):
"licite fodiendo possint trahere et habere per medium terre nostre usque ad domum suam de Kynlos aquam de Masseth quam habent ex dono predecessorum nostrorum"
The license is mentioned (in 1310) in Records of the monastery of Kinloss (available from archive.org) along with the Latin but in that it refers to digging a channel from the Mosset to the abbey rather than diverting it as such.
Brilliant, thanks Andy - POMS won't open for me at the moment, but I forgot I could have found the Latin in the Records of the Monastery of Kinloss. It says the monks could dig a channel from the king's land, but I thought the whole of the low-lying area to the north and north-east of Forres already belonged to the abbey. Clearly some more research required!