Thanks Peadar - it is pretty exciting I think. I've had some really interesting suggestions from various people since giving the talk, which seem to add even more weight to the idea of there being two small polities arranged in the way the mapping evidence suggests. I also think there are similar patterns in Atholl and Gowrie, and in Fife (per Meggen Gondek's 2003 PhD), but I need to look into that properly.
It's *very* exciting and makes sense of various puzzles (though also giving me a couple of identity crises). The first(ish) thing I did when I looked at ethnonyms in place-names was exclude names referring to Moray etc folk; and you agreed in the talk that they shouldn't be looked at in those terms. But I've been thinking about returning to them at some point - now with awareness of an even greater potential importance (though likely much later)!
Fascinating as ever! The Pictish stone at Edderton could also perhaps be a Moreb boundary marker? Living in Cromarty, I am always confused (and disappointed too!) that we don't have our own large Sculptured Stone, but your thesis of a boundary running through the Cromarty Firth could explain why we don't (unless it is in the later medieval church foundations or lost to the sea). Looking at the 'visibility arcs' of the Easter Ross sculptured stones, they certainly show Easter Ross pointing towards Moray, whereas a large Stone on eg the South Sutor would have added another large visibility arc into the Moray Firth if Ros and Moreb were part of the same polity. Having two substantial monasteries (Rosemarkie and Portmahomack) quite close together does beg the question of why, but if they are the ecclesiastical centres of different polities, that adds weight to your proposed areas for the two polities. If 'cill names' reflect an early gaelic influence in Ros, is there any significant equivalent church placename distribution in Moreb? And if Ros and Moreb DID have an alliance in the 880/890s to defeat the Norse, I wonder how long it lasted and if it established/reinforced/stabilised/informed the norse southern fringe through the black isle (going on place names) rather than the norse pressing further south? So many rabbit holes and I look forward to more!
Hi Sheila, thanks very much for all these thoughts - all very good questions! I do need to think about the Class III cross at Edderton; in fact all of the Class III crosses in the region. At first glance they seem to be used across the region - in Ros there's a slab at Delnies, and fragments at Achareidh (in Nairn) and Dores, plus fragments and place-names referring to crosses (Corslet) at Rosemarkie. In 'Moreb' there's Edderton, Sueno's Stone, the Altyre/Roseisle Cross, and fragments at Burghead, Kinneddar and Portmahomack (and perhaps others I've missed). It's possible that at least some of these were boundary markers - the Delnies slab very possibly marked the boundary of the Rosemarkie monastic estate on the Ardersier side of the Firth.
A very good point that the Shandwick and Cadboll stones face towards Moray - that hadn't occurred to me! I *think* they (and Nigg) are marking landing-places? In which case, Cromarty itself might have been the right place for a slab on the Black Isle side. What is the 'Cross' that's marked by the church on the OS map?
Re. church place-names in Moreb, there doesn't seem to be a uniform name like cill-. Thomas Clancy has persuasively argued for Logie as a possibly-Pictish 'church' name (not everywhere, as it can also mean 'hollow' in Gaelic, but in some places), which is interesting because of the Class II slab from Logie Wester, which seems to point to a Pictish enclave or holdout in Ros. There are a few Logie names up and down the Findhorn that seem to have faint ecclesiastical associations. But generally the early medieval church sites in Moreb don't have church-y names at all, e.g. Dyke, Birnie, Kinneddar, Nigg, Edderton, Kincardine. I suggested in my MA dissertation that this may reflect different modes of pastoral provision in the two polities - with Ros having a network of cill- churches overseen by a bishop at Rosemarkie, and Moreb having a patchwork of 'estate churches' set up by secular landowners for their tenants and workers.
And VERY good question on the extent and timescale of the Norse advance south and east of the Cromarty Firth. Barbara Crawford has always argued that they wanted control of the entrance to the Great Glen, and in that, it seems, they were never successful. So if there was an alliance (which is a very big if) it does seem to have checked the southwards advance at Scatwell/Urray and prevented Norse capture of both Inverness and Burghead. But at what date, I couldn't say. Lots more digging to be done!
The only crosses I can see on the modern OS map near the church in Cromarty are places of workshop. There are crosses on older OS maps indicating 'sites of antiquity' but I don't know what they are - old buildings perhaps. I'm not aware of ANY references to Sculpture Stones in or near Cromarty. There is a reference on Canmore to a 'St Moluag's church' in what is now underwater, but the earliest reference to that I am aware of is a story referred to in the NSA, repeated by Hugh Miller, of old bones rescued from a churchyard eroding from the coast. Moluag is a very early name, but who knows how much is real...
Thanks Sheila - annoyingly I can't post an image in here, but on the 1:25 map of Cromarty there is a label 'Cross' in gothic writing next to the church, or behind it, it's difficult to tell. Looking at it on Google Streetview has made me realise I've never been to Cromarty and it looks lovely! I shall have to visit on one of my field trips.
Just one word: Wow!
Thanks Peadar - it is pretty exciting I think. I've had some really interesting suggestions from various people since giving the talk, which seem to add even more weight to the idea of there being two small polities arranged in the way the mapping evidence suggests. I also think there are similar patterns in Atholl and Gowrie, and in Fife (per Meggen Gondek's 2003 PhD), but I need to look into that properly.
It's *very* exciting and makes sense of various puzzles (though also giving me a couple of identity crises). The first(ish) thing I did when I looked at ethnonyms in place-names was exclude names referring to Moray etc folk; and you agreed in the talk that they shouldn't be looked at in those terms. But I've been thinking about returning to them at some point - now with awareness of an even greater potential importance (though likely much later)!
Fascinating as ever! The Pictish stone at Edderton could also perhaps be a Moreb boundary marker? Living in Cromarty, I am always confused (and disappointed too!) that we don't have our own large Sculptured Stone, but your thesis of a boundary running through the Cromarty Firth could explain why we don't (unless it is in the later medieval church foundations or lost to the sea). Looking at the 'visibility arcs' of the Easter Ross sculptured stones, they certainly show Easter Ross pointing towards Moray, whereas a large Stone on eg the South Sutor would have added another large visibility arc into the Moray Firth if Ros and Moreb were part of the same polity. Having two substantial monasteries (Rosemarkie and Portmahomack) quite close together does beg the question of why, but if they are the ecclesiastical centres of different polities, that adds weight to your proposed areas for the two polities. If 'cill names' reflect an early gaelic influence in Ros, is there any significant equivalent church placename distribution in Moreb? And if Ros and Moreb DID have an alliance in the 880/890s to defeat the Norse, I wonder how long it lasted and if it established/reinforced/stabilised/informed the norse southern fringe through the black isle (going on place names) rather than the norse pressing further south? So many rabbit holes and I look forward to more!
Hi Sheila, thanks very much for all these thoughts - all very good questions! I do need to think about the Class III cross at Edderton; in fact all of the Class III crosses in the region. At first glance they seem to be used across the region - in Ros there's a slab at Delnies, and fragments at Achareidh (in Nairn) and Dores, plus fragments and place-names referring to crosses (Corslet) at Rosemarkie. In 'Moreb' there's Edderton, Sueno's Stone, the Altyre/Roseisle Cross, and fragments at Burghead, Kinneddar and Portmahomack (and perhaps others I've missed). It's possible that at least some of these were boundary markers - the Delnies slab very possibly marked the boundary of the Rosemarkie monastic estate on the Ardersier side of the Firth.
A very good point that the Shandwick and Cadboll stones face towards Moray - that hadn't occurred to me! I *think* they (and Nigg) are marking landing-places? In which case, Cromarty itself might have been the right place for a slab on the Black Isle side. What is the 'Cross' that's marked by the church on the OS map?
Re. church place-names in Moreb, there doesn't seem to be a uniform name like cill-. Thomas Clancy has persuasively argued for Logie as a possibly-Pictish 'church' name (not everywhere, as it can also mean 'hollow' in Gaelic, but in some places), which is interesting because of the Class II slab from Logie Wester, which seems to point to a Pictish enclave or holdout in Ros. There are a few Logie names up and down the Findhorn that seem to have faint ecclesiastical associations. But generally the early medieval church sites in Moreb don't have church-y names at all, e.g. Dyke, Birnie, Kinneddar, Nigg, Edderton, Kincardine. I suggested in my MA dissertation that this may reflect different modes of pastoral provision in the two polities - with Ros having a network of cill- churches overseen by a bishop at Rosemarkie, and Moreb having a patchwork of 'estate churches' set up by secular landowners for their tenants and workers.
And VERY good question on the extent and timescale of the Norse advance south and east of the Cromarty Firth. Barbara Crawford has always argued that they wanted control of the entrance to the Great Glen, and in that, it seems, they were never successful. So if there was an alliance (which is a very big if) it does seem to have checked the southwards advance at Scatwell/Urray and prevented Norse capture of both Inverness and Burghead. But at what date, I couldn't say. Lots more digging to be done!
The only crosses I can see on the modern OS map near the church in Cromarty are places of workshop. There are crosses on older OS maps indicating 'sites of antiquity' but I don't know what they are - old buildings perhaps. I'm not aware of ANY references to Sculpture Stones in or near Cromarty. There is a reference on Canmore to a 'St Moluag's church' in what is now underwater, but the earliest reference to that I am aware of is a story referred to in the NSA, repeated by Hugh Miller, of old bones rescued from a churchyard eroding from the coast. Moluag is a very early name, but who knows how much is real...
Thanks Sheila - annoyingly I can't post an image in here, but on the 1:25 map of Cromarty there is a label 'Cross' in gothic writing next to the church, or behind it, it's difficult to tell. Looking at it on Google Streetview has made me realise I've never been to Cromarty and it looks lovely! I shall have to visit on one of my field trips.