Thanks, Fiona. I'll certainly look at this paper, first opportunity. Note than when I looked at this for the thesis I classified the name as antiquarian, so not claiming it as contemporary with those who may have used the monument as the comparison implies. Would be wonderful to know what those coining the name knew / thought of them though!
I've just realised this, having re-read your comment. Yes, it may be an antiquarian coining from the 13th century - when I think the prevailing view was that the Picts were strange little people who lived in holes in the ground? It's great to have your view on 'rune' = ScG 'raon' for 'field', as it's easy to think of 'rune' = 'runestone' and make an erroneous connection with Sueno's Stone that way.
Hi Peadar, thanks very much for this! Yes, both Rune Pictorum and Runetwethel are intriguing names. Linking Rune Pictorum to Sueno's Stone seems most logical (and tantalising as an early invocation of the Picts), but in 1858 James Brichan quite enterprisingly mapped out the boundaries defined in Alexander II's 1221 charter, and found that it consists of land to the east of Sueno's Stone. His PSAS paper is here: http://journals.socantscot.org/index.php/psas/article/view/4408. He may not be right, of course! One of my many plans-that-may-not-come-to-fruition is to try to map out this and other Kinloss Abbey land grants in GIS to see what it really consisted of.
Hi Victoria, thanks very much for this. Interesting that Alex Sanmark is looking at sea levels as well - I had seen her work on assembly places and I was planning to fold some of that into my ever-expanding thoughts on Sueno's Stone.
Thanks too for the reminder of Luisa Izzi's paper, which I had watched before but have now just watched again. There surely are echoes of Trajan's Column and the column of Marcus Aurelius in Sueno's Stone, and this must surely say something about the patron. (I keep skirting around the fact that the one early medieval king of Alba who was definitely from Moray had also been to Rome and apparently had lots of money to scatter about!)
I can't see Sueno's Stone being quite *that* late! I think we should probably assume a steady if almost invisible trickle of clerical contact between Rome and Pictland.
I'm glad to hear you say that, as I wasn't looking forward to trying to make an argument for it being associated with Macbeth :) The Chronicle of the Kings of Alba mentions a couple of people (presumably high-level clerics) going to Rome in 970-ish, so it was clearly a thing that people were doing.
Thanks, Fiona. I'll certainly look at this paper, first opportunity. Note than when I looked at this for the thesis I classified the name as antiquarian, so not claiming it as contemporary with those who may have used the monument as the comparison implies. Would be wonderful to know what those coining the name knew / thought of them though!
May your GIS plan, to fruition come...
I've just realised this, having re-read your comment. Yes, it may be an antiquarian coining from the 13th century - when I think the prevailing view was that the Picts were strange little people who lived in holes in the ground? It's great to have your view on 'rune' = ScG 'raon' for 'field', as it's easy to think of 'rune' = 'runestone' and make an erroneous connection with Sueno's Stone that way.
Very interesting and persuasive - thank you! You might be interested in what I said about Sueno's Stone in my PhD on ethnonyms in place-names https://research-repository.st-andrews.ac.uk/handle/10023/4164
p42
A further Cruithnian-name, assuming translation, is a boundary feature for Burgie
in Moray. Recorded in 1221 as a hybrid in a Latin context, Rune Pictorum†RAF-MOR
seems to be a field associated with the twenty-foot sculptured Sueno's Stone. In the light
of the other Cruithnian-names, the safest conclusion is that this, too, is antiquarian in
motivation.
Appx p261 (formatting lost)
Rune Pictorum RAF-MOR †(Rafford). Antiquarian name. Ch. 3 Cruithnians: probable.
NJ046595 (?).
A boundary marker for Burgie {Grant & Leslie 1798} (Shaw 1882 i, 13). Sueno's Stone – a
20' sculptured monument (Canmore, 15785).
'The carne of the Pethis or the Pechts seildis [sic]' (REM no. 4 p. 457). 'The carne of the
Pethis or the Pechts feildis', probably associated with the Forres sculptured pillar [Sueno's
Stone] (REM, xxx). 'The Picts' cairn' {Grant & Leslie 1798} (Shaw 1882 i, 13).
1221 Rune Pictorum (acc.) (REM, xxx; REM no. 4 pp. 456, 457)
ScG n.m/f. raon + gen. pl. of Ln n.m. *Pictus
ScG *Raon Chruithneach – 'field associated with the Picts'
The generic in Rune Pictorum also appears in Runetwethel (acc.), 'field associated with
ScG masc. anthro. Tuathal'. Both names are in a list of boundary marks for Burgie, along
with other clearly Gaelic names. Rather than a loan word in untypically incorrect Latin
grammar, this appears to be undeclined ScG n.m/f. raon 'field' in Older Scots orthography.
The grid reference is supplied by Sueno's Stone, (re-)erected at the apex of a spur of the
parish of Rafford MOR near Burgie. Translation of the Gaelic ethnonym is assumed. The
REM interpretations comes from a MS translation of four names from Gaelic to Older
Scots which was added to the original charter; but interpretation as 'cairn' has no obvious
basis. The plural interpretation of rune in REM may be seeking to make the reference
agree with Latin grammar.
Hi Peadar, thanks very much for this! Yes, both Rune Pictorum and Runetwethel are intriguing names. Linking Rune Pictorum to Sueno's Stone seems most logical (and tantalising as an early invocation of the Picts), but in 1858 James Brichan quite enterprisingly mapped out the boundaries defined in Alexander II's 1221 charter, and found that it consists of land to the east of Sueno's Stone. His PSAS paper is here: http://journals.socantscot.org/index.php/psas/article/view/4408. He may not be right, of course! One of my many plans-that-may-not-come-to-fruition is to try to map out this and other Kinloss Abbey land grants in GIS to see what it really consisted of.
Really fascinating! Look forward to seeing where you get with the research :)
Thanks Samuel, glad you liked it! I'm enjoying your Substack too - looks like there's lots of great stuff to get stuck into there.
Thank you very much!
Great stuff. Alex Sanmark might have some thoughts about the ancient geography and sea levels, as she is working on similar questions in the northern and western isles. Also, are you aware of Luisa Izzi-Greens excellent 2013 paper? https://www.socantscot.org/resource/trajans-column-on-his-doorstep-investigating-the-romanitas-of-suenos-stone/
Hi Victoria, thanks very much for this. Interesting that Alex Sanmark is looking at sea levels as well - I had seen her work on assembly places and I was planning to fold some of that into my ever-expanding thoughts on Sueno's Stone.
Thanks too for the reminder of Luisa Izzi's paper, which I had watched before but have now just watched again. There surely are echoes of Trajan's Column and the column of Marcus Aurelius in Sueno's Stone, and this must surely say something about the patron. (I keep skirting around the fact that the one early medieval king of Alba who was definitely from Moray had also been to Rome and apparently had lots of money to scatter about!)
I can't see Sueno's Stone being quite *that* late! I think we should probably assume a steady if almost invisible trickle of clerical contact between Rome and Pictland.
I'm glad to hear you say that, as I wasn't looking forward to trying to make an argument for it being associated with Macbeth :) The Chronicle of the Kings of Alba mentions a couple of people (presumably high-level clerics) going to Rome in 970-ish, so it was clearly a thing that people were doing.